1 00:00:11,860 --> 00:00:09,119 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:22,729 --> 00:00:11,870 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:22,739 [Music] 4 00:00:28,740 --> 00:00:25,060 yes it's the skeptics own podcast 5 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:28,750 episode number 609 for the 14th of June 6 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:31,210 2020 richardsaunders here with you from 7 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:34,690 a foggy rainy soggy Sydney Australia in 8 00:00:40,139 --> 00:00:38,110 fact I can hear the rain falling down on 9 00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:40,149 the skeptics own studios at the moment 10 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:41,440 coming up on this week's show I 11 00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:43,540 interview associate professor Paul 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:45,729 Willis who is a paleontologist 13 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:48,850 he likes pails he likes dinosaurs he 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:51,430 likes ancient things Paul and I have 15 00:00:55,740 --> 00:00:53,530 known each other for many years and it 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:55,750 was a delight to hook up with Paul who's 17 00:01:00,210 --> 00:00:58,570 in Adelaide South Australia for this 18 00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:00,220 interview and in fact at Paul's 19 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:03,670 suggestion we videoed the interview and 20 00:01:10,890 --> 00:01:06,430 that's up on the skeptics own YouTube 21 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:10,900 channel lots of people use that to look 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:12,850 through the skeptics own episodes and 23 00:01:18,749 --> 00:01:15,250 it's on the skeptics own Facebook page 24 00:01:20,639 --> 00:01:18,759 so if you want to hear the interview 25 00:01:24,090 --> 00:01:20,649 with Paul and I coming up great go ahead 26 00:01:26,730 --> 00:01:24,100 if you want to hear and see it a sneak 27 00:01:29,430 --> 00:01:26,740 peek behind the scenes then head to the 28 00:01:32,190 --> 00:01:29,440 skeptics on Facebook or YouTube anyway 29 00:01:35,460 --> 00:01:32,200 Paul and I discuss dinosaur news and 30 00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:35,470 he's new series about dinosaur news 31 00:01:40,649 --> 00:01:37,630 associate professor Paul Willis from 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:40,659 paleo pictures following that it's 33 00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:42,610 Michelle big Asthma with logical 34 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:45,040 fallacies this week Michelle looks at 35 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:48,790 moving the goal posts not much moving of 36 00:01:54,350 --> 00:01:51,190 any goal posts lately or I do notice 37 00:01:57,539 --> 00:01:54,360 though here in Australia at least 38 00:01:59,370 --> 00:01:57,549 football various codes like that are 39 00:02:01,500 --> 00:01:59,380 starting to be played again one if 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:01,510 they'll be moving the goal posts then we 41 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:04,330 have the bizarre situation those are 42 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:06,250 lots of bizarre situations and these 43 00:02:12,979 --> 00:02:09,970 days of the covert of a flyer a leaflet 44 00:02:16,259 --> 00:02:12,989 going around doing the rounds 45 00:02:20,910 --> 00:02:16,269 proclaiming that diseases are basically 46 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:20,920 a myth that includes covert how crazy 47 00:02:26,910 --> 00:02:23,860 can you get find out as I read out this 48 00:02:29,009 --> 00:02:26,920 crazy covert letter later in the show 49 00:02:31,229 --> 00:02:29,019 then to round off the show it's the 50 00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:31,239 return of the book of Tim with Tim 51 00:02:37,470 --> 00:02:34,060 Mendham and Tim's going to be read 52 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:37,480 from the current issue of the skeptic 53 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:41,130 magazine part 1 of a history of 54 00:02:49,589 --> 00:02:44,890 chiropractic by dr. Stephen basa next 55 00:02:53,130 --> 00:02:49,599 week part 2 now before we get into the 56 00:02:56,820 --> 00:02:53,140 first interview on today's show just a 57 00:03:01,199 --> 00:02:56,830 quick look at the fact that in the last 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:01,209 week the strange outfit known as 59 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:04,530 homeopathy plus magical sugar and water 60 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:08,170 are posting yet again the wonders of 61 00:03:13,979 --> 00:03:11,310 homeopathy as used in India to fight 62 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:13,989 corona virus or to protect from corona 63 00:03:18,660 --> 00:03:16,450 virus and at the same time I've noticed 64 00:03:22,020 --> 00:03:18,670 news reports from India about how dire 65 00:03:24,809 --> 00:03:22,030 the situation is there so something's 66 00:03:25,559 --> 00:03:24,819 not working is it homeopathy Plus and my 67 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:25,569 friend 68 00:03:33,449 --> 00:03:30,489 andris Pinta from the ESP the European 69 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:33,459 skeptics podcast has been in touch with 70 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:36,250 me lately and he's helping to organize 71 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:39,970 yet more subtitles for the vaccination 72 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:42,340 Chronicles and if you go to skipped exam 73 00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:45,010 dot TV scroll right to the bottom of the 74 00:03:49,890 --> 00:03:47,590 page you will see the vaccination 75 00:03:52,979 --> 00:03:49,900 chronicles a a documentary I did about 76 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:52,989 four or five years ago and he's helping 77 00:03:58,500 --> 00:03:55,120 to organize let's see what have we done 78 00:04:00,960 --> 00:03:58,510 so far we've added polish captions and 79 00:04:03,690 --> 00:04:00,970 Slovenian captions with more to come 80 00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:03,700 thank you undress it's a wonderful thing 81 00:04:09,539 --> 00:04:05,620 to do to help that project and 82 00:04:12,809 --> 00:04:09,549 especially this time where vaccination 83 00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:12,819 is on everybody's mind but now it's time 84 00:04:17,460 --> 00:04:14,500 for me to run downstairs and get a nice 85 00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:17,470 hot cup of coffee while I dream about I 86 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:20,470 don't know a warm bath and a big white 87 00:04:25,740 --> 00:04:22,720 fluffy dressing-gown that would be very 88 00:04:27,410 --> 00:04:25,750 good well I do that I hope you enjoy the 89 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:27,420 skeptic Zone 90 00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:47,770 [Music] 91 00:04:57,770 --> 00:04:53,889 a piece of his mind with Professor Paul 92 00:05:06,899 --> 00:05:03,589 [Music] 93 00:05:08,999 --> 00:05:06,909 well folks I'm delighted to welcome to 94 00:05:10,739 --> 00:05:09,009 the skeptic zone a man I've known for 95 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:10,749 many years almost two decades I think 96 00:05:15,029 --> 00:05:13,060 we've had some fun adventures together 97 00:05:17,850 --> 00:05:15,039 with Dinosaurs and skepticism and all 98 00:05:19,709 --> 00:05:17,860 sorts of things it's associate professor 99 00:05:21,929 --> 00:05:19,719 Paul Willis hello Paul 100 00:05:24,059 --> 00:05:21,939 get I Richard how you doing mate you 101 00:05:25,649 --> 00:05:24,069 know what during this crazy time of the 102 00:05:28,679 --> 00:05:25,659 the lockdown and the shut up and the get 103 00:05:30,570 --> 00:05:28,689 lost I'm doing too bad I can't remember 104 00:05:32,570 --> 00:05:30,580 the last time I had a sniffle or a cold 105 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:32,580 or a cough or anything like that yeah 106 00:05:36,689 --> 00:05:35,289 might I say it looks like the pair of us 107 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:36,699 are growing old disgracefully it's 108 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:38,770 wonderful to see speak for yourself 109 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:45,550 I can hear emit it where you may be in 110 00:05:49,969 --> 00:05:47,409 the past folks we've had some funny 111 00:05:52,379 --> 00:05:49,979 times Paul and I because occasionally 112 00:05:54,179 --> 00:05:52,389 Paul when you lived in Sydney we would 113 00:05:57,059 --> 00:05:54,189 be confused for each other I think when 114 00:06:00,629 --> 00:05:57,069 we both had darker hair yeah yeah when 115 00:06:02,309 --> 00:06:00,639 we were younger people I'm not sure who 116 00:06:04,140 --> 00:06:02,319 was whose doppelganger but we were 117 00:06:06,929 --> 00:06:04,150 mistaken on simple occasions 118 00:06:08,790 --> 00:06:06,939 well the strangest one to me was the 119 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:08,800 phone rang here one day and I picked it 120 00:06:14,929 --> 00:06:10,330 up and I said hello and the voice on the 121 00:06:22,110 --> 00:06:18,290 that was this that was the strangest one 122 00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:22,120 Paul also known as paleo Paul let's talk 123 00:06:28,980 --> 00:06:25,649 about your latest series of videos and 124 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:28,990 your outlets for what you love to do 125 00:06:34,379 --> 00:06:31,289 which is of course hunting for dinosaurs 126 00:06:38,429 --> 00:06:34,389 paleo pictures you've got a new weekly 127 00:06:41,219 --> 00:06:38,439 series with dinosaur news and it's more 128 00:06:43,709 --> 00:06:41,229 a regular series or should I say 129 00:06:46,260 --> 00:06:43,719 irregular series as I get enough 130 00:06:49,409 --> 00:06:46,270 material together to put out an episode 131 00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:49,419 and then I'll put out an episode the I 132 00:06:55,889 --> 00:06:53,649 the idea is is look Crona virus and the 133 00:06:58,679 --> 00:06:55,899 whole lockdown really messed about with 134 00:07:01,589 --> 00:06:58,689 the whole business model for paleo 135 00:07:03,929 --> 00:07:01,599 pictures yeah we couldn't go out and get 136 00:07:07,769 --> 00:07:03,939 sponsors we couldn't go out and do 137 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:07,779 filming we couldn't do anything so we 138 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:11,110 more or less put paleo pictures into 139 00:07:16,770 --> 00:07:15,849 hibernation but then it dawned on me 140 00:07:18,390 --> 00:07:16,780 that 141 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:18,400 even in hibernation there's still 142 00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:20,320 something we can do to build brand 143 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:24,910 identity right and still building the 144 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:28,990 presence of paleo pictures on the social 145 00:07:34,250 --> 00:07:31,330 media sites and we're getting a lot of 146 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:34,260 traction particularly in Instagram and 147 00:07:40,140 --> 00:07:37,510 you know the contributions to social 148 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:40,150 media actually consist of posting up 149 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:43,570 stories from paleontology as they come 150 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:46,780 to my attention and I thought well it's 151 00:07:51,690 --> 00:07:48,910 not going to be that much effort to be 152 00:07:56,100 --> 00:07:51,700 able to string a group of those together 153 00:07:59,610 --> 00:07:56,110 and put out a bulletin of paleo news hmm 154 00:08:04,020 --> 00:07:59,620 so that people can you know in in one 155 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:04,030 short little podcast are able to catch 156 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:05,860 up on the latest and greatest in 157 00:08:10,980 --> 00:08:07,930 paleontology of dinosaurs and fossils 158 00:08:13,290 --> 00:08:10,990 and stories from the past presented to 159 00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:13,300 you in the president it sounds pretty 160 00:08:18,030 --> 00:08:15,550 good I've been enjoying the episodes 161 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:18,040 you've putting up so far you've put up 162 00:08:22,170 --> 00:08:20,350 so far now let's talk about a few of the 163 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:22,180 news items which really caught my 164 00:08:28,110 --> 00:08:26,290 attention a 100-year old now a 100 165 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:28,120 million year old I was gonna say I 166 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:29,530 wouldn't bother with a hundred year old 167 00:08:35,149 --> 00:08:33,880 a 100 degree carbon dated it's too young 168 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:35,159 it is it is 169 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:39,130 well this one is bizarre like a lot of 170 00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:41,110 ancient creatures are to us a I guess a 171 00:08:49,310 --> 00:08:45,640 spider scorpion yeah yeah really weird 172 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:49,320 creature this one and this one came from 173 00:08:58,290 --> 00:08:53,770 amber in Burma and this a deposit or 174 00:09:01,820 --> 00:08:58,300 Myanmar this amber deposit has just been 175 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:01,830 producing stunning fossils including 176 00:09:08,550 --> 00:09:05,500 hatchling dinosaur birds and all sorts 177 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:08,560 of weird things well complete geckos and 178 00:09:13,770 --> 00:09:11,620 what-have-you and one of the creatures 179 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:13,780 that came out and is December's about 180 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:15,880 100 million years old as you said yeah 181 00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:19,210 is and they've got multiple specimens of 182 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:23,470 it is a what looks like a cross between 183 00:09:30,590 --> 00:09:27,250 a spider and a scorpion they are both in 184 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:30,600 the same group and one of all 185 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:33,930 from the other and so you've got what 186 00:09:40,999 --> 00:09:36,720 looks like a sort of elongate spider 187 00:09:43,189 --> 00:09:41,009 with a long thin whip-like tail and 188 00:09:46,220 --> 00:09:43,199 these spider scorpions are thought to 189 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:46,230 date back a couple hundred million years 190 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:50,910 prior to this fine so you know that 191 00:09:59,120 --> 00:09:54,569 group probably goes back to about 300 192 00:10:07,129 --> 00:09:59,130 million years ago but if you're an 193 00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:07,139 arachnophobia terrifying to look in the 194 00:10:14,389 --> 00:10:11,100 glorious detail of this creature and I 195 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:14,399 think this this group of creatures or 196 00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:15,930 what-have-you 197 00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:19,440 were on the planet for such a huge 198 00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:22,980 length of time before being extinct or 199 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:25,440 dying out or evolving or whatever but 200 00:10:30,139 --> 00:10:27,810 for countless eons there were spiders 201 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:30,149 scorpions and creatures like them well 202 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:32,850 exactly I mean in a sense you're talking 203 00:10:39,009 --> 00:10:34,500 about a missing link you're talking 204 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:39,019 about a representative of a group that's 205 00:10:45,790 --> 00:10:42,930 not fully fledged spider it's not a 206 00:10:48,259 --> 00:10:45,800 fully fledged scorpion it is a 207 00:10:49,579 --> 00:10:48,269 representative of the transition between 208 00:10:50,660 --> 00:10:49,589 those two groups 209 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:50,670 there's going to be a movie now 210 00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:52,170 someone's going to listen to this and 211 00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:54,060 say oh the next movie is going to be the 212 00:11:00,400 --> 00:10:58,079 spider scorpion movie yeah even better 213 00:11:03,319 --> 00:11:00,410 because it's preserved in amber some 214 00:11:06,980 --> 00:11:03,329 some clueless person will want to 215 00:11:09,410 --> 00:11:06,990 reconstruct it from the DNA and probably 216 00:11:11,389 --> 00:11:09,420 confused the DNA with I don't know 217 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:11,399 elephant DNA or something so we end up 218 00:11:17,179 --> 00:11:14,730 with a giant spider scorpion well having 219 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:17,189 Jurassic Park lost a lot of opportunity 220 00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:20,310 they could have had creatures exactly a 221 00:11:26,079 --> 00:11:23,279 pox and errors and what a giant wombat 222 00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:26,089 drastic park let's have the joint end by 223 00:11:32,329 --> 00:11:28,800 speaking more like we're more likely to 224 00:11:35,569 --> 00:11:32,339 do that new cuz we can actually get DNA 225 00:11:41,540 --> 00:11:35,579 there only we could get DNA either for 226 00:11:44,030 --> 00:11:41,550 the larger species of of the wombats 227 00:11:45,769 --> 00:11:44,040 that lived in the cup 228 00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:45,779 a couple of tens of thousands of years 229 00:11:50,180 --> 00:11:48,720 ago right or the group called the 230 00:11:52,610 --> 00:11:50,190 Diprotodon tens which are often 231 00:11:54,050 --> 00:11:52,620 described as massive wombats the largest 232 00:11:55,819 --> 00:11:54,060 marsupials that have ever lived 233 00:11:58,370 --> 00:11:55,829 yeah I've seen the chances of getting 234 00:11:59,810 --> 00:11:58,380 DNA out of amber 100 million years old 235 00:12:01,699 --> 00:11:59,820 is zero 236 00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:01,709 well I mean makes it makes for fun 237 00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:03,779 movies anyway when one of our reporters 238 00:12:07,790 --> 00:12:06,060 on the Skippy and Trish Han one of her 239 00:12:10,819 --> 00:12:07,800 favorite movies is the original Jurassic 240 00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:10,829 Park and I saw it at her place about a 241 00:12:15,850 --> 00:12:12,630 year or two back and Wow it was a 242 00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:15,860 fabulous nostalgia trip yeah yeah really 243 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:19,560 and some of the wonderful mistakes in it 244 00:12:33,620 --> 00:12:29,600 they they had a vile in the in when 245 00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:33,630 Nidre goes into steals the specimens of 246 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:38,220 embryos one of the species of dinosaur 247 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:40,649 is a thing I think it's a Kraken Saurus 248 00:12:45,439 --> 00:12:43,290 hmm and at the time it was only known 249 00:12:47,780 --> 00:12:45,449 from a couple of lumbar vertebrae of an 250 00:12:51,579 --> 00:12:47,790 adult right so the only way you could 251 00:12:54,439 --> 00:12:51,589 identify the embryos of Acrocanthosaurus 252 00:12:57,620 --> 00:12:54,449 would be to grow one to adulthood 253 00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,630 kill it drip it down and identify that 254 00:13:05,540 --> 00:12:59,760 the lumbar vertebrae were the same thing 255 00:13:07,930 --> 00:13:05,550 and then you could say yes that was boy 256 00:13:10,819 --> 00:13:07,940 you're spoiling that the movie magic 257 00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:10,829 technically speaking I'm not a pen no no 258 00:13:16,579 --> 00:13:13,800 no I know I understand I I love all 259 00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:16,589 those movies I put my brain on hold it's 260 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:18,600 it's having is having a lot of fun but 261 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:22,260 we're talking about ancient Australian 262 00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:23,910 animals here let's go even further back 263 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:27,420 another news item that you covered in in 264 00:13:31,790 --> 00:13:29,970 the series was a discovery of a new 265 00:13:33,620 --> 00:13:31,800 dinosaur in Victoria which is 266 00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,630 particularly interesting when it links 267 00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:35,519 up to other dinosaur species in the 268 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,860 southern hemisphere and amazingly enough 269 00:13:42,829 --> 00:13:39,600 this thing could have lived in the 270 00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:42,839 Arctic Circle yeah this is a one of the 271 00:13:47,749 --> 00:13:45,600 very the meat-eating dinosaurs you know 272 00:13:48,889 --> 00:13:47,759 when you say the the theropods or the 273 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:48,899 medium you go so that everyone thinks 274 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:50,730 that rhinoceros or Allosaurus you know 275 00:13:56,689 --> 00:13:54,689 the be the Metis but the theropods are a 276 00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:56,699 really diverse group there's a lot of 277 00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:57,360 weird 278 00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,000 strange lineages and one of those 279 00:14:06,259 --> 00:14:03,360 strange lineages has just been 280 00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:06,269 identified from a neck bone found in 281 00:14:13,130 --> 00:14:09,540 Victoria again it's about 100 million 282 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:13,140 years old and the only thing like it is 283 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:16,410 from similar age deposits in Madagascar 284 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:20,730 now at the time Australia was so far 285 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:23,310 south that that site wouldn't that 286 00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:25,290 animal would have been living within the 287 00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:28,649 Antarctic Circle so you immediately 288 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:31,440 we're learning a heck of a lot just 289 00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:33,450 simply by the finding and identification 290 00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:37,070 of that one single neck bone that this 291 00:14:46,430 --> 00:14:42,720 strange group of theropods were present 292 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:46,440 across Gondwana the Giants of the 293 00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:48,930 southern continent but also that they 294 00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:52,740 were living in environments that we 295 00:14:59,329 --> 00:14:56,100 don't expect many animals to be living 296 00:15:03,199 --> 00:14:59,339 in today yeah although it would have 297 00:15:06,019 --> 00:15:03,209 probably been warmer below the Antarctic 298 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:06,029 Circle 100 million years ago it wouldn't 299 00:15:12,139 --> 00:15:09,510 have been that much warmer it would 300 00:15:17,230 --> 00:15:12,149 still be pretty harsh conditions to make 301 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:17,240 a living in so it really opens our whole 302 00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:20,730 understanding of the abilities of these 303 00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:23,399 creatures to live in a number of harsh 304 00:15:26,689 --> 00:15:25,350 environments now of course you know what 305 00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:26,699 you're talking about especially in this 306 00:15:30,250 --> 00:15:28,620 situation because you've been down to 307 00:15:33,199 --> 00:15:30,260 the Antarctic quite a few times 308 00:15:39,019 --> 00:15:33,209 yeah I've been down I think it's 11 309 00:15:41,630 --> 00:15:39,029 times now I was a expert to a guide with 310 00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:41,640 Aurora expeditions mm-hmm 311 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:44,820 specifically my job was to introduce the 312 00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:47,490 tourists to the fossil deposits on the 313 00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:50,699 Antarctic Peninsula and there are 314 00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,740 spectacular fossil deposits there 315 00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:54,720 because they haven't been picked over by 316 00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,420 people yeah anywhere else in the world 317 00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:00,240 if you've got well there's a couple of 318 00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,070 factors that are in your favor in 319 00:16:06,889 --> 00:16:04,560 Antarctica everywhere else in the world 320 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:06,899 where there have been spectacular fossil 321 00:16:10,430 --> 00:16:08,910 deposits though because they're easier 322 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:10,440 to get to 323 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:12,810 there's people around they many of them 324 00:16:17,119 --> 00:16:14,790 have been picked clean but also in 325 00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:17,129 Antarctica there's no soil there's no 326 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:20,699 vegetation so you can see the bedrock in 327 00:16:27,050 --> 00:16:23,190 most places that you go to if there's no 328 00:16:30,259 --> 00:16:27,060 snow or ice and surprisingly large areas 329 00:16:31,579 --> 00:16:30,269 of the Antarctic Peninsula particularly 330 00:16:34,809 --> 00:16:31,589 on the eastern side where the fossils 331 00:16:37,249 --> 00:16:34,819 are a completely bare of snow and ice 332 00:16:41,929 --> 00:16:37,259 you see the bedrock you see the fossils 333 00:16:45,650 --> 00:16:41,939 and yeah it's and the icing on the cake 334 00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:45,660 is one set of deposits that produce 335 00:16:53,119 --> 00:16:48,839 fossils in Antarctica span the period of 336 00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:53,129 time dinosaurs disappeared the sequence 337 00:17:01,699 --> 00:16:57,480 of beds that date from about 70 million 338 00:17:05,329 --> 00:17:01,709 years down to about 55 million years ago 339 00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:05,339 that covers it and the extinction is 340 00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:07,079 almost slap-bang in the middle of that 341 00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:11,100 material we're talking about 66 65 to 66 342 00:17:19,850 --> 00:17:14,880 years ago 65.5 depends on the day of the 343 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:19,860 week yeah but and there are places in 344 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:22,650 Antarctica where you on Seymour Island 345 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:26,130 where you can literally walk across an 346 00:17:32,830 --> 00:17:29,970 ancient seabed crammed full of fossils 347 00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:32,840 and then there's a line in the dirt and 348 00:17:38,890 --> 00:17:35,880 the fossils disappeared well and that 349 00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:38,900 line in the dirt is the KT extinction 350 00:17:43,549 --> 00:17:41,820 okay I keep threatening to come with you 351 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:43,559 on your next expedition I'm sure we can 352 00:17:47,539 --> 00:17:45,210 share a cabin Paul I'm sure that 353 00:17:50,539 --> 00:17:47,549 wouldn't be any problem yeah yeah I'm 354 00:17:54,409 --> 00:17:50,549 not sure how that whole venture is going 355 00:17:55,399 --> 00:17:54,419 to go post Coburn but it would be nice 356 00:17:58,039 --> 00:17:55,409 to get back down there 357 00:18:00,799 --> 00:17:58,049 finally finally some news about t-rex 358 00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,809 and the fact that the animal itself 359 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:03,120 seemed to change quite a bit during its 360 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:07,110 like its its own lifespan yeah we've 361 00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:12,450 known for some time that t-rex was quite 362 00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:15,600 different as a juvenile inform as to 363 00:18:21,710 --> 00:18:17,880 what it was like when it was an adult 364 00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:21,720 and this had been quantified into a 365 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:23,470 growth curve a couple 366 00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:26,110 times in the past but what happened and 367 00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:27,640 this is only last week that this was 368 00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:31,120 published eased some researchers went 369 00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:35,190 back and looked at all 44 specimens that 370 00:18:46,490 --> 00:18:38,799 are known for Tran asaurus rex they 371 00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:46,500 measured something like 1875 features of 372 00:18:54,299 --> 00:18:50,799 those specimens and then they plug that 373 00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:54,309 in to produce a growth curve so we know 374 00:19:00,060 --> 00:18:56,830 pretty accurately how long they lived 375 00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:00,070 when their growth spurts were the 376 00:19:07,049 --> 00:19:04,000 periods of of growth so you've got a 377 00:19:09,060 --> 00:19:07,059 juvenile you've got a sub-adult you've 378 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:09,070 got an adult there's actually five 379 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:10,450 periods of growth that they've 380 00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:15,090 identified and so we can actually track 381 00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:18,580 how these things changed as they grew 382 00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:22,990 and as a young creature they would have 383 00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:25,870 the most obvious differences a word they 384 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:29,470 would tend to have an arrow and and 385 00:19:35,789 --> 00:19:32,530 relatively shallow skull mm-hmm 386 00:19:39,690 --> 00:19:35,799 and as they got older the skull got 387 00:19:42,090 --> 00:19:39,700 deeper and broader and they lost teeth 388 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:42,100 well that makes a number of teeth the 389 00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:45,130 number of teeth decreased as they went 390 00:19:51,570 --> 00:19:48,940 as they grew older there are other many 391 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:51,580 other differences but you know the the 392 00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:54,130 fact that we've now got this really 393 00:20:00,419 --> 00:19:57,760 detailed report as to how trance or has 394 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:00,429 changed throughout its life it's really 395 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:02,770 an insight into their biology it's 396 00:20:09,330 --> 00:20:06,070 fascinating to do do we have a decent 397 00:20:12,899 --> 00:20:09,340 understanding of what a life expectancy 398 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:12,909 for a t-rex would be at 28 years hmm 399 00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:18,360 about 28 years and most of the growth is 400 00:20:25,950 --> 00:20:22,830 concentrated into a period from about I 401 00:20:31,649 --> 00:20:25,960 think it's about seven years old to 402 00:20:32,909 --> 00:20:31,659 about 15 you it's not as a constant 403 00:20:36,029 --> 00:20:32,919 flatline growth 404 00:20:37,220 --> 00:20:36,039 it's almost exponential and then it 405 00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:37,230 tapers off 406 00:20:42,409 --> 00:20:39,900 and that the main growth period is right 407 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:42,419 in the middle there wow so much to find 408 00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,850 out and folks the only reason I knew 409 00:20:48,380 --> 00:20:46,799 about this these items we've been 410 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:48,390 discussing today is I took the time and 411 00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:50,510 I watched the first three episodes of 412 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:54,480 paleo pictures the dinosaur the news 413 00:20:59,630 --> 00:20:56,820 updates the Dino updates the paleo 414 00:21:01,310 --> 00:20:59,640 updates paleo pictures news it's called 415 00:21:05,299 --> 00:21:01,320 where can people see that for themselves 416 00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:05,309 Paul we've got a YouTube channel just 417 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:10,230 look up paleo news or paleo pictures and 418 00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:13,970 also we are putting them out as a 419 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:19,260 Instagram TV series which you can view 420 00:21:24,530 --> 00:21:23,130 through Paleo pictures on Instagram and 421 00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:24,540 if I can just give a shout out because 422 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:31,110 paleo pictures as a business yeah pretty 423 00:21:39,169 --> 00:21:34,760 unusual beasts because not only are we a 424 00:21:42,530 --> 00:21:39,179 documentary production company but we 425 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:42,540 also are a research company right and we 426 00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:45,570 aim to fund the research that we make 427 00:21:51,020 --> 00:21:48,900 the documentaries about it's a bit of an 428 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:51,030 unusual beast and if it wasn't for a 429 00:21:55,310 --> 00:21:52,770 number of people in the skeptic 430 00:21:58,370 --> 00:21:55,320 community in Australia who came on board 431 00:22:01,460 --> 00:21:58,380 as shareholders really early on we 432 00:22:03,230 --> 00:22:01,470 wouldn't be where we are today so I'm 433 00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:03,240 not gonna embarrass anyone by naming 434 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:05,070 names but a big shout out to all of 435 00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:08,100 those guys who got behind us and if 436 00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:10,830 anybody else is interested in supporting 437 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:14,100 our activities we have got a patreon 438 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:18,330 account right and if you want to support 439 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,650 the future of paleontology and telling 440 00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:24,720 the world the wonders of the mysteries 441 00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:27,390 from the past then hop on to our patreon 442 00:22:32,419 --> 00:22:29,640 account and look at becoming a patreon a 443 00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:32,429 patron for Palio pictures folks you can 444 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:34,710 support the future of the past how about 445 00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:37,890 that that's that's the message you like 446 00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:44,960 well Paul Willis associate professor 447 00:22:48,110 --> 00:22:46,710 Paul Willis always a pleasure to have 448 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:48,120 you on the sceptic zone you've been at 449 00:22:51,890 --> 00:22:50,130 my guest on the show quite a few times 450 00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:51,900 you even have your own theme music which 451 00:22:56,419 --> 00:22:54,900 is quite an honor we look forward and I 452 00:22:59,419 --> 00:22:56,429 look forward especially myself to 453 00:23:01,700 --> 00:22:59,429 watching each new episode of paleo 454 00:23:03,140 --> 00:23:01,710 pictures news as it comes online but for 455 00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:03,150 now thank you very much 456 00:23:28,909 --> 00:23:16,860 [Music] 457 00:23:36,029 --> 00:23:32,999 dr. Harriet Hall MD no into thousands as 458 00:23:39,149 --> 00:23:36,039 the skeptic a retired family physician 459 00:23:41,219 --> 00:23:39,159 and former Air Force flight surgeon she 460 00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:41,229 writes about medicine so-called 461 00:23:44,219 --> 00:23:42,929 complementary and alternative medicine 462 00:23:47,999 --> 00:23:44,229 science 463 00:23:50,639 --> 00:23:48,009 pakery and critical thinking Harriet now 464 00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:50,649 has a free course a series of 10 video 465 00:23:56,339 --> 00:23:53,080 lectures on science-based medicine and 466 00:23:58,469 --> 00:23:56,349 alternative medicine the videos and an 467 00:24:01,979 --> 00:23:58,479 accompanying course guide can be found 468 00:24:06,109 --> 00:24:01,989 by following the link at skeptic info or 469 00:24:11,399 --> 00:24:06,119 by visiting web Randi's org slash 470 00:24:13,829 --> 00:24:11,409 educational - modules dot html' topics 471 00:24:16,349 --> 00:24:13,839 covered in the series are science-based 472 00:24:20,089 --> 00:24:16,359 medicine vs. evidence-based medicine 473 00:24:23,369 --> 00:24:20,099 what is camp chiropractic acupuncture 474 00:24:26,159 --> 00:24:23,379 homeopathy naturopathy and herbal 475 00:24:28,889 --> 00:24:26,169 medicine energy medicine miscellaneous 476 00:24:31,859 --> 00:24:28,899 alternatives pitfalls in research and 477 00:24:35,639 --> 00:24:31,869 science based medicine in the media and 478 00:24:38,219 --> 00:24:35,649 politics Harriette covers each topic in 479 00:24:41,489 --> 00:24:38,229 a matter-of-fact no-nonsense way that 480 00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:41,499 shorter educate and entertain skeptic 481 00:25:08,770 --> 00:24:43,140 dot info 482 00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:08,780 [Music] 483 00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:10,700 logical fallacies 484 00:25:16,620 --> 00:25:13,500 [Music] 485 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:16,630 what are the logical fallacies and why 486 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:18,700 is it important that critical thinkers 487 00:25:25,740 --> 00:25:22,510 should know about them a logical fallacy 488 00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:25,750 is an error we can make in reasoning but 489 00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:27,460 it usually crops up when we are 490 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:31,140 discussing or arguing our point of view 491 00:25:36,210 --> 00:25:33,910 some people might even knowingly use 492 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:36,220 them to try and score cheap points in an 493 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:36,850 argument 494 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,810 due to intellectual laziness they are 495 00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:43,360 traps we can fall into but if we know 496 00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:45,640 what to look out for we can spot them 497 00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:47,920 when they occur and stop ourselves from 498 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:53,860 using them this time we'll look at 499 00:26:01,080 --> 00:25:57,610 moving the goal posts also known as 500 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:01,090 raising the bar and the shifting sands 501 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:03,130 this is when your opponent does not 502 00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:05,890 accept a successful answer to their 503 00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:08,380 challenge and insists on you answering 504 00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:12,460 more and more questions sometimes people 505 00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:15,160 simply cannot accept the fact that their 506 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:17,980 challenge has been answered thus showing 507 00:26:24,570 --> 00:26:20,910 that their own point of view is wrong 508 00:26:27,660 --> 00:26:24,580 instead of acknowledging this and that 509 00:26:29,850 --> 00:26:27,670 can be awkward for any of us they'll add 510 00:26:32,430 --> 00:26:29,860 to their challenge with new conditions 511 00:26:35,910 --> 00:26:32,440 that makes it harder and harder to show 512 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:35,920 them wrong a creationist challenge a 513 00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:38,650 paleontologist to show at least one 514 00:26:44,180 --> 00:26:41,230 example of a transitional fossil that 515 00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:44,190 links dinosaurs to birds when the 516 00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:46,960 paleontologist did just that the 517 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:49,840 creationist complained that all this new 518 00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:53,290 fossil did was to create two new gaps on 519 00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,270 either side of the fossil record and 520 00:26:59,000 --> 00:26:58,000 wanted yet more examples to fill in 521 00:27:01,980 --> 00:26:59,010 those gaps 522 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:01,990 since the creationists worldview and 523 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:05,290 religion are to them beyond question it 524 00:27:10,110 --> 00:27:07,930 would be very hard bordering on 525 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:10,120 impossible for them to accept evidence 526 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:13,570 that contradicts this view they often 527 00:27:18,690 --> 00:27:15,610 resort to moving the goalposts 528 00:27:21,210 --> 00:27:18,700 to preserve their belief system in fact 529 00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,220 science has discovered thousands of 530 00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:23,200 examples of transitions in the fossil 531 00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:26,620 record showing clear evolutionary step 532 00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:28,840 within a Spacey's and from one species 533 00:27:34,350 --> 00:27:31,900 to another I think the moon landings 534 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:34,360 were faked in a movie studio there was 535 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:36,850 no way the USA had the technology to 536 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:40,450 reach the moon in 1969 I mean look at 537 00:27:45,810 --> 00:27:43,210 all the hundreds of inconsistencies and 538 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:45,820 impossible things we are supposed to 539 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:48,970 believe as each claim made by those 540 00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:51,490 espousing a moon landing conspiracy is 541 00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:53,110 met and debunked 542 00:27:59,130 --> 00:27:55,809 for example the multiple light sources 543 00:28:02,040 --> 00:27:59,140 on the moon or the lack of stars in 544 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:02,050 photos of the lunar sky they either 545 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:05,230 reject the evidence outright or may well 546 00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:08,110 accept the evidence but then move on to 547 00:28:15,210 --> 00:28:10,900 yet another claim and another and 548 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:15,220 another there appears to be no degree of 549 00:28:21,060 --> 00:28:17,770 evidence that will finally convince them 550 00:28:24,260 --> 00:28:21,070 that the landings were real and humans 551 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:24,270 have been to the moon a breatharian 552 00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:26,530 someone who claims they can live on 553 00:28:31,169 --> 00:28:28,990 little more than fresh air was 554 00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:31,179 challenged to prove her amazing claim 555 00:28:37,470 --> 00:28:34,000 she agreed to be watched day and night 556 00:28:40,110 --> 00:28:37,480 in a city hotel room but after only 48 557 00:28:42,930 --> 00:28:40,120 hours she displayed symptoms of acute 558 00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:42,940 dehydration stress and high blood 559 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:45,960 pressure she claimed it was due to 560 00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:48,490 polluted air and was moved to another 561 00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:51,460 hotel in the countryside but didn't 562 00:28:59,690 --> 00:28:55,600 improve this really happened in the year 563 00:29:03,140 --> 00:28:59,700 2000 the 60 Minutes TV show in Australia 564 00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:03,150 arranged for breatharian jazz Maheen or 565 00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:07,000 ellen grieve to be tested as per her 566 00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:09,820 claim she was happy with the test 567 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:12,220 conditions but when it became apparent 568 00:29:18,150 --> 00:29:15,090 she was deteriorating from lack of food 569 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:18,160 she changed the conditions of the test 570 00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:21,730 in effect moving the goal posts 571 00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:25,240 even though 60 minutes agreed her health 572 00:29:30,130 --> 00:29:28,179 continued to decline and the test was 573 00:29:31,399 --> 00:29:30,140 canceled 574 00:29:34,139 --> 00:29:31,409 [Music] 575 00:29:37,019 --> 00:29:34,149 protecting our worldview or belief 576 00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:37,029 system is a very human thing to do and 577 00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:41,080 we all do it to one degree or another it 578 00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:43,720 can at times protect us from simply 579 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:46,480 believing in whatever someone tells us 580 00:29:52,769 --> 00:29:49,450 and we should not be afraid to ask for 581 00:29:55,889 --> 00:29:52,779 more information and evidence you might 582 00:29:58,169 --> 00:29:55,899 call it healthy skepticism but there 583 00:30:00,509 --> 00:29:58,179 comes a point when moving the goalposts 584 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:00,519 is about rejecting evidence that 585 00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:03,370 conflicts with what we want or need to 586 00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:09,100 be true knowing a logical fallacy when 587 00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:11,679 you hear one and even knowing its name 588 00:30:18,060 --> 00:30:14,380 is important when arguing your point of 589 00:30:20,879 --> 00:30:18,070 view however you may come across as 590 00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:20,889 arrogant and not get very far if you 591 00:30:27,210 --> 00:30:23,500 call it out by name to your opponent 592 00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:27,220 when you hear it being used if your 593 00:30:32,340 --> 00:30:29,529 opponent calls you out for using one 594 00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:32,350 it's time to stop and think about how 595 00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:35,950 you were making your case use your 596 00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:38,260 knowledge of logical fallacies wisely 597 00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:41,590 and remember that even if your point of 598 00:30:46,860 --> 00:30:43,840 view is right and you know all the 599 00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:46,870 pitfalls in arguing your case it doesn't 600 00:30:53,789 --> 00:30:50,380 always mean you'll win on the day and a 601 00:30:59,580 --> 00:30:53,799 skeptics we must also remember that we 602 00:31:01,320 --> 00:30:59,590 too can be wrong at times I'm Michele 603 00:31:12,090 --> 00:31:01,330 bigger smart from the Vick skeptics 604 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:21,070 [Music] 605 00:31:33,020 --> 00:31:24,880 to the organizer spooky encounters like 606 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:33,030 stump far outback Australia I am writing 607 00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:35,730 to you to complain about the lack of 608 00:31:45,380 --> 00:31:41,580 ghosts of late in your so-called most 609 00:31:48,490 --> 00:31:45,390 haunted house in the world tour imagine 610 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:48,500 my displeasure when upon arriving at the 611 00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:51,930 location the haunted house in question 612 00:31:59,420 --> 00:31:57,390 turned out to be an outhouse even worse 613 00:32:08,750 --> 00:31:59,430 there was a lengthy queue of people 614 00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:08,760 waiting to use it when at last it was my 615 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:11,580 turn to enter the house 616 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:16,130 the only disturbing aspect I encountered 617 00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:20,730 was the smell please be so kind as to 618 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:36,560 yours disappointedly etc etc PS I also 619 00:33:08,270 --> 00:32:46,410 think your gift shop can do better then 620 00:33:09,980 --> 00:33:08,280 to sell hoarded toilet paper now we've 621 00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:09,990 been talking about over the last couple 622 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:12,510 of months only a surprise all the 623 00:33:17,690 --> 00:33:15,210 conspiracies and scams and cons and 624 00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:17,700 wacky theories and etc to do with 625 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:21,510 coronavirus and our reporter Heidi 626 00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:23,850 Robertson from the rock skeptic has 627 00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:26,070 brought this to the attention of the 628 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:28,640 other skeptics own reporters this is a 629 00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:32,130 leaflet or a flyer just something 630 00:33:37,340 --> 00:33:34,500 printed out on a sheet of paper that's 631 00:33:42,770 --> 00:33:37,350 been appearing in letter boxes in 632 00:33:47,010 --> 00:33:42,780 Australia and it reads as follows 633 00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:47,020 [Music] 634 00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:52,000 the coronavirus is a scam dear citizen 635 00:33:58,330 --> 00:33:55,400 you have been deceived by the media 636 00:34:02,190 --> 00:33:58,340 government pharmaceutical companies and 637 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:02,200 doctors it has been known for at least 638 00:34:11,110 --> 00:34:07,690 150 years the germs do not cause disease 639 00:34:14,110 --> 00:34:11,120 this was proven by a biologist by the 640 00:34:17,470 --> 00:34:14,120 name of Antoine B champ he was a 641 00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:17,480 contemporary of Louis Pasteur it was 642 00:34:22,830 --> 00:34:19,790 proven that germs are the result of a 643 00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:22,840 disease and are not the cause of it 644 00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:25,670 recent technology and understanding of 645 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:28,460 vitamins has further confirmed this 646 00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:32,290 information disease is unnatural and 647 00:34:39,610 --> 00:34:36,560 doesn't occur by itself in nature humans 648 00:34:41,650 --> 00:34:39,620 have strayed from nature by growing 649 00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:41,660 cereal crops to store for the winter 650 00:34:48,220 --> 00:34:45,100 period when foods are scarce 651 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:48,230 unfortunately there is a hidden cost in 652 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:51,050 eating grain food when plants make a 653 00:34:56,050 --> 00:34:53,810 seed they add toxic chemicals and sharp 654 00:34:58,720 --> 00:34:56,060 edges to discourage foraging animals 655 00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:58,730 from eating grass seeds and some tree 656 00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:01,760 seeds when animals eat grain seeds the 657 00:35:07,630 --> 00:35:04,400 toxic chemicals and sharp edges irritate 658 00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:07,640 the gut causing inflammation of the gut 659 00:35:14,110 --> 00:35:10,670 aligning leaky gut syndrome 660 00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:14,120 this causes gaps in the gut lining to 661 00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:17,420 expand which allows gut bacteria and 662 00:35:23,170 --> 00:35:19,030 food material to enter the bloodstream 663 00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:23,180 and also grain is deficient in vitamins 664 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:27,710 which humans need grain is a high octane 665 00:35:32,170 --> 00:35:28,570 fuel 666 00:35:36,430 --> 00:35:32,180 designed for birds when humans eat grain 667 00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:36,440 it causes an acceleration of their 668 00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:39,380 metabolic rate and a small increase in 669 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:42,110 body temperature a doctor would call 670 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:44,450 this a fever but this fever is not 671 00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:48,110 caused by germs but by fast digesting 672 00:35:56,350 --> 00:35:51,680 sugars from grain milk and sugar sources 673 00:35:57,250 --> 00:35:56,360 this is the true cause of 99% of all 674 00:36:01,930 --> 00:35:57,260 human disease 675 00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:01,940 these note junk food causes disease not 676 00:36:05,620 --> 00:36:02,510 germs 677 00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:05,630 that's why coronavirus mostly occurs on 678 00:36:13,780 --> 00:36:09,110 cruise ships nursing homes theme parks 679 00:36:16,210 --> 00:36:13,790 and fast food outlets now the next 680 00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:16,220 couple of sentences are in big bold 681 00:36:24,730 --> 00:36:21,200 print there is only one human disease 682 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:24,740 which is called vitamin deficiency 683 00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:27,410 disease there are not thousands of 684 00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:31,310 different diseases there is no such 685 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:34,430 thing as viruses I know because I have 686 00:36:39,850 --> 00:36:36,410 worked in an electron microscope unit 687 00:36:42,490 --> 00:36:39,860 where I have learnt how to use all the 688 00:36:45,490 --> 00:36:42,500 equipment I also learned about the 689 00:36:48,610 --> 00:36:45,500 electron microscopes limitations as well 690 00:36:52,810 --> 00:36:48,620 an electron microscope wouldn't be able 691 00:36:56,850 --> 00:36:52,820 to find a quote virus in quote if in 692 00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:56,860 fact they did exist 693 00:37:04,990 --> 00:37:00,190 you can't photograph what you can't find 694 00:37:08,770 --> 00:37:05,000 all alleged photos of viruses are blurry 695 00:37:11,980 --> 00:37:08,780 images why this is a deliberate 696 00:37:15,730 --> 00:37:11,990 deception because viruses don't exist so 697 00:37:18,340 --> 00:37:15,740 they have to make the furrows unclear so 698 00:37:22,660 --> 00:37:18,350 that nobody can see that the photos are 699 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:22,670 of cell debris and are not photos of 700 00:37:27,550 --> 00:37:25,490 viruses the electron microscope can see 701 00:37:30,670 --> 00:37:27,560 individual atoms so there can be no 702 00:37:34,180 --> 00:37:30,680 excuse for not having clear and precise 703 00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:34,190 images of the so-called quote viruses 704 00:37:39,490 --> 00:37:35,440 end quote 705 00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:39,500 viruses are illogical nonsense you can't 706 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:42,640 be dead one minute and alive the next a 707 00:37:49,810 --> 00:37:45,890 virus is something that has no brain 708 00:37:53,110 --> 00:37:49,820 legs nervous system sight ears and 709 00:37:56,170 --> 00:37:53,120 wouldn't be able to survive in a real 710 00:37:58,570 --> 00:37:56,180 world don't be fooled by medical and 711 00:38:03,100 --> 00:37:58,580 government officials who hope to gain 712 00:38:07,450 --> 00:38:03,110 profit power money and population 713 00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:07,460 control from this huge global scale 714 00:38:13,060 --> 00:38:09,830 now the next part is interesting and 715 00:38:16,180 --> 00:38:13,070 I'll get to that in a minute so it's in 716 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:16,190 bold print help to stop this medical 717 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:18,610 system dictatorship sign petitions 718 00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:22,690 against force vaccinations refer to 719 00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:26,240 informed medical options party for 720 00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:30,590 petitions against forced medications now 721 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:34,280 I put out at a call-out on the skeptic 722 00:38:39,550 --> 00:38:37,310 zone Twitter page or Twitter feed for 723 00:38:42,670 --> 00:38:39,560 anybody who might know anything about 724 00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:42,680 this flyer and the information and I had 725 00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:46,960 a tip-off which led me to debate org and 726 00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:49,670 one of the people who take part in 727 00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:52,220 debates on that website who goes under 728 00:39:02,830 --> 00:38:58,210 the moniker of AK headed in' know so an 729 00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:02,840 egyptian-themed icon and they have 730 00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:06,830 started a debate as a recording six days 731 00:39:12,820 --> 00:39:10,190 ago the corona virus is a fraud and if 732 00:39:15,310 --> 00:39:12,830 we go down and read their opening 733 00:39:17,170 --> 00:39:15,320 arguments it's word-for-word what I just 734 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:17,180 read to you you have been deceived by 735 00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,770 the media government pharmaceutical 736 00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:20,240 companies and doctors it has been known 737 00:39:25,050 --> 00:39:22,160 for at least 150 years excetera exoteric 738 00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:25,060 syrup right at the end though it says 739 00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:27,500 don't be fooled by the medical and 740 00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:29,150 government officials who help to gain 741 00:39:34,030 --> 00:39:31,910 profit power money and population 742 00:39:36,910 --> 00:39:34,040 control from this huge global scam 743 00:39:39,250 --> 00:39:36,920 helped to stop this medical system 744 00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:39,260 dictatorship and then it says sign 745 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:41,750 petitions against force vaccinations and 746 00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:44,930 medications so it doesn't talk about 747 00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:49,070 going to I'm up I'm up 748 00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:52,550 what is I'm up well the website is I'm 749 00:40:00,610 --> 00:39:57,440 mop party calm and it says here the 750 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:00,620 informed medical options party i mop 751 00:40:06,220 --> 00:40:02,810 formerly known as the involuntary 752 00:40:11,260 --> 00:40:06,230 medication objectors vaccination 753 00:40:12,940 --> 00:40:11,270 fluoride party so that gives you an 754 00:40:17,370 --> 00:40:12,950 inkling I think of what they are all 755 00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:17,380 about and it says they want to stand 756 00:40:23,170 --> 00:40:20,960 candidates for elections I'm up believe 757 00:40:25,390 --> 00:40:23,180 that the medical freedoms of Australians 758 00:40:27,849 --> 00:40:25,400 are at risk like never before in history 759 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:27,859 so a little bit of scare mongering there 760 00:40:31,210 --> 00:40:30,650 I mops principal platforms are as 761 00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:31,220 follows 762 00:40:37,150 --> 00:40:33,950 no forced medication no compulsory or 763 00:40:40,270 --> 00:40:37,160 coerced vaccinations no fluoride in our 764 00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,280 water and one of the prominent people 765 00:40:48,070 --> 00:40:43,040 featured in the videos on this website 766 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:48,080 is none other than Judy why Lehmann who 767 00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:50,930 we've mentioned before past recipient of 768 00:40:55,859 --> 00:40:53,150 the Australian skeptics bent spoon award 769 00:41:01,870 --> 00:40:55,869 for her anti vaccination rhetoric and 770 00:41:04,450 --> 00:41:01,880 downplaying the the emergency that was 771 00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:04,460 and still is the coronavirus situation 772 00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:07,369 and there are all sorts of PhDs and 773 00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:09,740 people associated with that movement 774 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:12,680 that particular party but we are 775 00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:15,290 reminded of that old adage that no 776 00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:17,420 matter how crazy the idea is you'll 777 00:41:23,849 --> 00:41:20,660 always find percentage of doctors or 778 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:23,859 PhDs or people like that who support it 779 00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:26,810 now I I really don't know if this 780 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:28,760 ridiculous flier with its conspiracy 781 00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:32,210 theories and nonsense is truly linked to 782 00:41:38,290 --> 00:41:35,839 the imop party I'm a mop there's got to 783 00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:38,300 be a joke in there somewhere maybe the 784 00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:41,089 party itself I doubt it I think somebody 785 00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,160 has just found that online somewhere 786 00:41:48,130 --> 00:41:45,440 probably on that debate 787 00:41:50,829 --> 00:41:48,140 org or who knows where copied it and 788 00:41:53,020 --> 00:41:50,839 just tacked on the imop information 789 00:41:54,849 --> 00:41:53,030 because they did a google and saw that 790 00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:54,859 here in australia there is such a party 791 00:42:00,520 --> 00:41:57,760 who are running petitions against 792 00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:00,530 basically vaccination when you boil down 793 00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:03,710 to it but that flyer i think i will now 794 00:42:10,660 --> 00:42:07,760 upload to corona conspiracy dot cloud 795 00:42:12,370 --> 00:42:10,670 now we've mentioned this before and i 796 00:42:16,060 --> 00:42:12,380 recommend you go and have a look at that 797 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:16,070 website corona conspiracy cloud it's a 798 00:42:21,849 --> 00:42:17,810 site where people have been posting up 799 00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:21,859 no end of conspiracies and quackery and 800 00:42:27,099 --> 00:42:25,040 bad advice to do with corona virus and 801 00:42:30,099 --> 00:42:27,109 it's beautifully laid out there's lots 802 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:30,109 of thumbnails here you can scroll down 803 00:42:33,740 --> 00:42:31,410 which i'm doing now 804 00:42:37,370 --> 00:42:33,750 and for example what's the first one 805 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:37,380 here covert 19 is a false flag operation 806 00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:40,609 to usher in the New World Order 807 00:42:48,170 --> 00:42:45,510 well there you go and also appearing on 808 00:42:51,490 --> 00:42:48,180 this site amongst all the quackery and 809 00:42:54,289 --> 00:42:51,500 nonsense are posts from homeopathy plus 810 00:42:59,740 --> 00:42:54,299 especially in regards to how wonderfully 811 00:43:03,140 --> 00:42:59,750 well homeopathy is working in India not 812 00:43:05,860 --> 00:43:03,150 well somebody once said and I'll say it 813 00:43:17,770 --> 00:43:05,870 again we live in interesting times 814 00:43:20,839 --> 00:43:17,780 [Music] 815 00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:20,849 Alaura ciao mi chiamo profesora de 816 00:43:25,940 --> 00:43:22,680 Beauty volumen senorita telugu 817 00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:25,950 sulakshana para la moda physica de 818 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:29,089 chemica Bureau Jia astronomia 819 00:43:33,859 --> 00:43:32,970 Mathematica atonte ultra cosy guarda me 820 00:43:36,019 --> 00:43:33,869 su YouTube 821 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:36,029 arrivederci hey everyone this is 822 00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:37,770 Professor Dave I want to teach you about 823 00:43:42,140 --> 00:43:40,049 all kinds of things regarding science I 824 00:43:44,029 --> 00:43:42,150 want to tell you about physics I want to 825 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:44,039 tell you about chemistry biology 826 00:43:49,970 --> 00:43:47,490 astronomy math and many many more things 827 00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:49,980 come check me out on youtube the channel 828 00:43:52,830 --> 00:43:52,440 is called professor Dave explains take 829 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:52,840 it easy 830 00:44:07,230 --> 00:43:55,810 [Music] 831 00:44:14,370 --> 00:44:07,240 the surgeon explained and now a reading 832 00:44:18,770 --> 00:44:14,380 from the book of Tim with Tim Mendham 833 00:44:23,610 --> 00:44:21,930 hi my name's Tim Mendham I'm the 834 00:44:25,950 --> 00:44:23,620 executive officer of Australian skeptics 835 00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:25,960 and also editor of our magazine the 836 00:44:31,470 --> 00:44:28,540 skeptic and this time I'll be reading an 837 00:44:34,860 --> 00:44:31,480 article called back to the past which 838 00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:34,870 actually comes out about June 2020 you 839 00:44:41,250 --> 00:44:38,100 with a magazine that's pretty up-to-date 840 00:44:44,330 --> 00:44:41,260 then again at the same time it is a 841 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:44,340 reprint of a classic catch article from 842 00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:48,130 1995 and the thing is it's about 843 00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:52,720 chiropractic and between 1995 and 2020 844 00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:55,780 not much has changed so it's still very 845 00:45:01,560 --> 00:44:58,690 relevant this was written by dr. Steven 846 00:45:03,350 --> 00:45:01,570 Besser a retired GP and former 847 00:45:06,780 --> 00:45:03,360 vice-president of the Victorian sceptics 848 00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:06,790 he gave this article as a presentation 849 00:45:12,810 --> 00:45:11,110 at our 1995 convention in the article 850 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:12,820 Steven says he wants to review the 851 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:15,730 history of chiropractic and examine its 852 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:19,050 scientific status at the time this was 853 00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:21,970 very timely and so was the hundredth 854 00:45:27,450 --> 00:45:23,430 anniversary of the founding of 855 00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:27,460 chiropractic now this year in 420 fifth 856 00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:29,740 he adds that to avoid any potential 857 00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:32,110 confusion and misunderstanding 858 00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:34,960 I thought it would be helpful to start 859 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:37,510 with some conclusions what I'm saying 860 00:45:42,570 --> 00:45:39,370 here is that many of the claims of 861 00:45:44,730 --> 00:45:42,580 chiropractic are at present unscientific 862 00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:44,740 or more accurately scientifically 863 00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:48,190 unproven what he is not saying is that 864 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:49,780 all of orthodox medicine is 865 00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:52,330 scientifically proven those who wish to 866 00:45:56,730 --> 00:45:54,280 read that message into this paper are 867 00:45:58,890 --> 00:45:56,740 advised to stop reading now to save 868 00:46:03,720 --> 00:45:58,900 disappointment and to preserve their 869 00:46:06,210 --> 00:46:03,730 prejudice the early history chiropractic 870 00:46:10,980 --> 00:46:06,220 was founded by Daniel David Palmer in 871 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:10,990 September 1895 in Davenport Iowa in the 872 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:14,050 u.s. Palmer was born in Ontario Canada 873 00:46:21,300 --> 00:46:17,650 in 1845 and at the age of 20 travelled 874 00:46:23,610 --> 00:46:21,310 with his brother to the USA in 1887 he 875 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:23,620 moved to Iowa and opened a magnetic 876 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:26,170 healing practice practitioners of 877 00:46:29,350 --> 00:46:27,850 magnetic healing believed they belong to 878 00:46:31,330 --> 00:46:29,360 a select group of persons 879 00:46:34,170 --> 00:46:31,340 whose personal magnetism was so great 880 00:46:37,690 --> 00:46:34,180 gave them the power to cure disease 881 00:46:39,220 --> 00:46:37,700 according to the official history Parma 882 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:39,230 performed the first chiropractic 883 00:46:45,790 --> 00:46:43,130 adjustment in September 1895 on Harvey 884 00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:45,800 Lillard a janitor working in the 885 00:46:52,570 --> 00:46:49,310 building where Palmer practiced little 886 00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:52,580 art had been deaf for 17 years claiming 887 00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:55,280 he became so subtly and something gave 888 00:47:00,670 --> 00:46:57,650 way in his back while stooped in a 889 00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:00,680 cramped position Palmer examined Lillard 890 00:47:06,820 --> 00:47:03,200 and found an out-of-place vertebra in 891 00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,830 his spine after applying pressure that 892 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:08,560 moved the vertebra back into place 893 00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:12,530 Lilith's hearing returned Palmer 894 00:47:16,540 --> 00:47:14,150 believed he had succeeded in one of his 895 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:16,550 life's quests to find the secret of 896 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:19,970 disease why one person falls ill while 897 00:47:25,660 --> 00:47:23,450 his or her neighbor does not he confided 898 00:47:28,380 --> 00:47:25,670 his discovery to a friend Reverend 899 00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:28,390 Samuel weed who suggested the name 900 00:47:35,530 --> 00:47:31,640 chiropractic from the Greek for done by 901 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:35,540 hand Palmer had no medical training and 902 00:47:40,030 --> 00:47:37,250 was unaware that the nerves of hearing 903 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:40,040 are entirely within the skull he 904 00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:41,330 believed he had restored the man's 905 00:47:46,330 --> 00:47:43,190 hearing by relieving pressure on a 906 00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:46,340 spinal nerve affecting hearing Palmer 907 00:47:52,030 --> 00:47:49,040 proposed the principle of the spinal 908 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:52,040 subluxation and established chiropractic 909 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:55,010 based upon it he believed that the body 910 00:47:59,620 --> 00:47:57,650 requires an unobstructed flow through 911 00:48:03,030 --> 00:47:59,630 the nervous system of an ethereal 912 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:03,040 substance called innate intelligence 913 00:48:08,110 --> 00:48:05,690 vertebral subluxations minor 914 00:48:10,030 --> 00:48:08,120 dislocations of the spinal column were 915 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:10,040 believed to interfere with the flow of 916 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:12,770 innate and caused an alteration in 917 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:16,490 nervous tone by depriving areas of the 918 00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:19,250 body of innate subluxations produced 919 00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:22,730 disease and parma claimed that 95% of 920 00:48:28,660 --> 00:48:25,310 all diseases were caused by subluxated 921 00:48:30,670 --> 00:48:28,670 vertebra treatment involved identifying 922 00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:30,680 these subluxations and manually 923 00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:32,630 restoring the vertebra to their normal 924 00:48:37,210 --> 00:48:35,150 alignment thus releasing the innate 925 00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:37,220 intelligence allowing the body's natural 926 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:40,710 healing powers to cure the patient 927 00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:43,290 from its inception chiropractic was 928 00:48:48,260 --> 00:48:46,470 defended as a science for chiropractors 929 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:48,270 though scientific knowledge was not 930 00:48:53,290 --> 00:48:50,730 acquired by experimental control of 931 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:53,300 variables in a carefully designed study 932 00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:55,290 instead they examined and treated 933 00:48:59,780 --> 00:48:57,720 patients and argued as many still do 934 00:49:03,099 --> 00:48:59,790 today that the results of their clinical 935 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:03,109 treatments constituted scientific proof 936 00:49:08,930 --> 00:49:06,690 Thomas and violet Joshua or BJ as is 937 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:08,940 known had brought out his father's 938 00:49:12,980 --> 00:49:10,770 burgeoning chiropractic business after a 939 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:12,990 bitter falling-out and assumed control 940 00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:15,330 of the financial and educational affairs 941 00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,089 proclaiming our school is on a business 942 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:20,880 not a professional basis we manufacture 943 00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:23,970 chiropractors BJ was not an advocate of 944 00:49:28,430 --> 00:49:25,200 systematic science 945 00:49:29,780 --> 00:49:28,440 he and Coulter in 1990 said that there 946 00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:29,790 has been a long history with in 947 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:32,310 chiropractic of anti-intellectualism and 948 00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:34,650 again this was heavily influenced by BJ 949 00:49:40,970 --> 00:49:37,740 Palmer we can't give you brains but we 950 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:40,980 can give you a diploma throughout the 951 00:49:45,140 --> 00:49:42,810 19th century supporters of natural 952 00:49:47,780 --> 00:49:45,150 theology held to the view that science 953 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:47,790 ennobled man because it demonstrated the 954 00:49:52,310 --> 00:49:50,250 magnificence of God chiropractors 955 00:49:54,109 --> 00:49:52,320 envisioned man as a microcosm of the 956 00:49:57,140 --> 00:49:54,119 universe with the innate intelligence 957 00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:57,150 and manifestation of a larger universal 958 00:50:02,380 --> 00:49:59,839 intelligence controlling everything 959 00:50:05,180 --> 00:50:02,390 chiropractic as a new scientific law 960 00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,190 enabling healing of the sick was an 961 00:50:10,339 --> 00:50:07,440 important contribution to revealing the 962 00:50:12,589 --> 00:50:10,349 goodness of God by comparison the 963 00:50:16,359 --> 00:50:12,599 emerging scientific medicine was 964 00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:16,369 regarded as atheistic materialism 965 00:50:21,290 --> 00:50:18,900 chiropractic was described by supporters 966 00:50:23,570 --> 00:50:21,300 as quote the only truly scientific 967 00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:23,580 method of healing because it balanced 968 00:50:28,099 --> 00:50:25,760 the spiritual and the material 969 00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:28,109 chiropractors believed their science was 970 00:50:32,839 --> 00:50:30,089 superior to medicine clinically and 971 00:50:34,310 --> 00:50:32,849 morally and attempted to appeal to those 972 00:50:37,010 --> 00:50:34,320 who were concerned about the growth of 973 00:50:40,310 --> 00:50:37,020 science and the perceived decline in 974 00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:40,320 spiritual values during the early years 975 00:50:44,930 --> 00:50:42,660 of the 20th century in many states of 976 00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:44,940 the USA legislation was introduced 977 00:50:50,420 --> 00:50:48,000 mandating basic scientific training in 978 00:50:52,370 --> 00:50:50,430 response chiropractic colleges taught 979 00:50:54,589 --> 00:50:52,380 sufficient science to pass the basic 980 00:50:56,329 --> 00:50:54,599 tests while continuing to 981 00:50:58,910 --> 00:50:56,339 the importance of the earlier teachings 982 00:51:01,180 --> 00:50:58,920 a good example of this is the response 983 00:51:03,140 --> 00:51:01,190 to the germ theory of disease 984 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:03,150 chiropractic initially taught that 985 00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:05,930 bacteria were unrelated to disease in 986 00:51:10,940 --> 00:51:08,910 response to the science legislation some 987 00:51:13,279 --> 00:51:10,950 bacteriology was introduced into 988 00:51:14,989 --> 00:51:13,289 chiropractic education the 989 00:51:18,259 --> 00:51:14,999 chiropractor's were taught that bacteria 990 00:51:20,359 --> 00:51:18,269 were not causally related to disease it 991 00:51:22,969 --> 00:51:20,369 was vertebral subluxations that caused 992 00:51:26,420 --> 00:51:22,979 disease by making a person susceptible 993 00:51:27,529 --> 00:51:26,430 to bacterial infection this was an 994 00:51:29,989 --> 00:51:27,539 important period during which 995 00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:29,999 chiropractic tried to retain sufficient 996 00:51:34,789 --> 00:51:32,160 distance from scientific medicine to be 997 00:51:36,380 --> 00:51:34,799 seen as a distinct alternative while 998 00:51:38,059 --> 00:51:36,390 absorbing enough of the teachings of 999 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:38,069 science and medicine to retain 1000 00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,130 credibility initially these attempts 1001 00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:43,440 were unsuccessful and chiropractic 1002 00:51:48,890 --> 00:51:46,200 entered a period of decline even as 1003 00:51:50,779 --> 00:51:48,900 recently at the 1960s many chiropractic 1004 00:51:53,710 --> 00:51:50,789 schools in the USA were using textbooks 1005 00:51:56,539 --> 00:51:53,720 that had not been updated for decades 1006 00:51:59,029 --> 00:51:56,549 beginning in the 1970s the tide began to 1007 00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:59,039 turn and interestingly there was a 1008 00:52:03,279 --> 00:52:00,960 growing skepticism about medicine and 1009 00:52:05,479 --> 00:52:03,289 science that helped things along 1010 00:52:07,849 --> 00:52:05,489 scientific medicine was accused of being 1011 00:52:09,549 --> 00:52:07,859 reductionist and of having ignored the 1012 00:52:11,989 --> 00:52:09,559 more human aspects of health care 1013 00:52:14,569 --> 00:52:11,999 chiropractic joined this chorus of 1014 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:14,579 criticism and the Alliance was formed 1015 00:52:19,549 --> 00:52:16,890 between chiropractic and the growing 1016 00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:19,559 holistic health movement in some 1017 00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:22,049 quarters chiropractic even dusted off 1018 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:24,630 its spiritual emphasis having once again 1019 00:52:31,309 --> 00:52:26,490 found a receptive audience 1020 00:52:33,690 --> 00:52:31,319 [Music] 1021 00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:33,700 that's the end of part 1 of this article 1022 00:52:38,190 --> 00:52:35,280 part 2 1023 00:52:42,299 --> 00:52:38,200 make sure you tune in next week to hear 1024 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:42,309 about the chiropractic laws and other 1025 00:52:47,130 --> 00:52:44,410 exciting things and the way chiropractic 1026 00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:47,140 has developed or not over the recent 1027 00:52:51,930 --> 00:52:48,150 decades 1028 00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:51,940 that's classic ash chiropractic from the 1029 00:52:58,589 --> 00:52:56,710 June 2020 issue of the skeptic now at 1030 00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:58,599 the time of this recording this issue is 1031 00:53:03,059 --> 00:53:00,640 not available for free to download 1032 00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:03,069 unlike almost all of the other issues of 1033 00:53:08,420 --> 00:53:05,710 our magazine you can see those other 1034 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:08,430 issues that skeptics calm a you and 1035 00:53:15,450 --> 00:53:12,010 download everything from 1981 up till 1036 00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:15,460 the last year but this article does form 1037 00:53:22,109 --> 00:53:18,790 part of a major investigative feature in 1038 00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:22,119 the June 2020 issue of the magazine on 1039 00:53:29,789 --> 00:53:26,049 chiropractic in which we look at so many 1040 00:53:32,609 --> 00:53:29,799 different aspects shocky research junky 1041 00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:32,619 philosophy those chiropractors who 1042 00:53:37,980 --> 00:53:35,440 belong in a shame file for promoting all 1043 00:53:39,710 --> 00:53:37,990 sorts of xiangqi science and medicine in 1044 00:53:42,690 --> 00:53:39,720 various other aspects of the industry 1045 00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:42,700 including the role or lack of it of 1046 00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:45,520 regulators this is part of a major 1047 00:53:49,370 --> 00:53:47,740 undertaking by Australian skeptics and 1048 00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:49,380 others to look at this particular 1049 00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:52,140 industry which wants to be seen as 1050 00:53:57,089 --> 00:53:54,730 scientific but his underpinnings are 1051 00:53:58,620 --> 00:53:57,099 anything but if you want to read more 1052 00:54:00,930 --> 00:53:58,630 about chiropractic in this issue of the 1053 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:00,940 magazine you'll have to subscribe which 1054 00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:03,970 we can do on our website skeptics calm a 1055 00:54:31,109 --> 00:54:04,990 you 1056 00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:31,119 people who continue to support the 1057 00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:35,260 podcast at WWDC arrogant Evie via 1058 00:54:41,460 --> 00:54:39,609 patreon or PayPal welcome to some new 1059 00:54:44,220 --> 00:54:41,470 patreon in the last week thank you very 1060 00:54:46,710 --> 00:54:44,230 much I shall write a little thank-you 1061 00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:46,720 letter to you and to the people who have 1062 00:54:51,930 --> 00:54:49,510 contributed more via our just chipping 1063 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:51,940 in much appreciated 1064 00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:55,210 truly much appreciated in fact it's 1065 00:54:59,550 --> 00:54:57,760 because of people like you supporting 1066 00:55:01,950 --> 00:54:59,560 and chipping in that the show keeps 1067 00:55:04,740 --> 00:55:01,960 going coming up on next week's show 1068 00:55:07,020 --> 00:55:04,750 another logical fallacy with Michele 1069 00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,030 bickers MA another type written letter 1070 00:55:11,010 --> 00:55:09,040 who writes letters on typewriters 1071 00:55:13,980 --> 00:55:11,020 anymore and soon there'll be another 1072 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:13,990 think tank session with the skeptics own 1073 00:55:19,410 --> 00:55:16,690 reporters but for this week this is 1074 00:55:23,099 --> 00:55:19,420 Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney 1075 00:55:26,180 --> 00:55:23,109 Australia what do you want hmm you've 1076 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:26,190 had your breakfast yeah I know 1077 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:33,359 mm-hmm you know I'm trying to record 1078 00:55:43,980 --> 00:55:41,290 don't you you've been listening to the 1079 00:55:50,910 --> 00:55:43,990 skeptic zone podcast please visit our 1080 00:55:53,460 --> 00:55:50,920 website at wwlp.com tax and to access 1081 00:55:57,060 --> 00:55:53,470 the bat catalog of episodes going back 1082 00:56:00,690 --> 00:55:57,070 to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone 1083 00:56:03,089 --> 00:56:00,700 podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit 1084 00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:03,099 our facebook page or leave a review on 1085 00:56:06,660 --> 00:56:04,000 itunes 1086 00:56:10,050 --> 00:56:06,670 you can also support the skeptic zone 1087 00:56:13,470 --> 00:56:10,060 via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone 1088 00:56:15,150 --> 00:56:13,480 podcast is an independent production the 1089 00:56:17,310 --> 00:56:15,160 views and opinions expressed on the 1090 00:56:19,620 --> 00:56:17,320 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 1091 00:56:24,849 --> 00:56:19,630 of Australian skeptics or any other 1092 00:56:24,859 --> 00:56:33,090 you 1093 00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:36,010 okay we have here Riley and Holly 1094 00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:38,240 Franklin do you want to say hello hello 1095 00:56:46,330 --> 00:56:43,490 hello and we have a dice out of one of 1096 00:56:48,250 --> 00:56:46,340 Holly's board games what game have we 1097 00:56:49,060 --> 00:56:48,260 taken this dice out of time of the 1098 00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:49,070 Daleks 1099 00:56:57,100 --> 00:56:55,010 don't have numbers 1 to 6 we have 6 1100 00:56:58,960 --> 00:56:57,110 different symbols Holly do you want to 1101 00:57:02,380 --> 00:56:58,970 tell us what these 6 different symbols 1102 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:02,390 are all right tell us running diplomacy 1103 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:06,050 science cunning tactics and strength ok 1104 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:08,570 so we've got 6 different symbols that 1105 00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:11,690 represent the six different things that 1106 00:57:17,230 --> 00:57:14,600 the doctor uses to complete these 1107 00:57:19,270 --> 00:57:17,240 challenges in the board game Riley's 1108 00:57:22,330 --> 00:57:19,280 gonna roll the dice and holly is going 1109 00:57:25,930 --> 00:57:22,340 to make the predictions so Holly which 1110 00:57:29,060 --> 00:57:25,940 of the six things do you want to predict 1111 00:57:32,330 --> 00:57:29,070 is going to come up the first time 1112 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:32,340 so the options are running diplomacy 1113 00:57:41,140 --> 00:57:36,290 science cunning tactics and strength 1114 00:57:45,050 --> 00:57:41,150 tactics tactics okay Riley roll the dice 1115 00:57:48,590 --> 00:57:45,060 what's that strength okay 1116 00:57:53,930 --> 00:57:48,600 holy make another guess diplomacy 1117 00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:53,940 diplomacy okay Riley what's that got one 1118 00:58:02,000 --> 00:57:57,890 okay last one make one last kiss 1119 00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:02,010 science science whoops whoops on the 1120 00:58:07,610 --> 00:58:02,640 ground 1121 00:58:17,330 --> 00:58:07,620 what does it land on really did we get 1122 00:58:19,310 --> 00:58:17,340 two out of three science high five okay